Thomas J. Price Interview
Thomas J. Price ‘71
Dartmouth College Oral History Program
Dartmouth Black Lives
October 28, 2021
Transcribed by Jamal Cooney ‘23
COONEY: My name is Jamal Cooney, and I am at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire. I am doing the zoom interview with Thomas Price in New Rochelle, New York. Today's date is Tuesday October 26, 2021, and this is an interview for the Dartmouth Black Lives Oral History Project. Hello Tom, is it OK, if I call you Tom?
PRICE: It's OK.
COONEY: Thank you for joining me today. First, I’d like to learn a little bit about your childhood, things such as where you were born, what is the name of your parents and how was it growing up in your neighborhood?
PRICE: OK. Well, the beginning was in Clifton Forge, Virginia and my father worked for the railroad my mother was a housewife. He moved west I guess following work and we ended up moving to a place called South Point, Ohio. My little village was called Burlington, Ohio and that's where I grew up.
I am an only child, but my mother had a large family. There were nine of them so. There were five brothers and sisters nearby, so I have a lot of cousins. And those cousins were some of the guys were more like brothers and some girls like sisters rather than cousins, so I grew up with a large, you know, not in my immediate house, but a large family in the immediate area.
Some of my older cousins, kind of rock ‘em, sock ‘em kind of guys. They used to push the young guys, like me and my other cousins a similar age around. One of my cousins, recently at a funeral, he was telling people that he made me the man I am now because when I was kid he used to push me around beat me up and dare me to tell my mother. And I never would because he said you got to be a little sissy if you go tell your mother. And so, I would never cry. Never tell. So he wants to take the credit for making me tough. In fact, some of them are very good athletes that I used to emulate. And I think that was helpful along the way when I started playing sports.
As a kid I was not really sickly but had asthma and a kind of bad asthma. I can recall being in the emergency room a lot as a child, but as I got older, asthma became less of a problem. And as that became less of a problem, I got better at playing sports and I guess maybe because I was [inaudible] around teammate friends, I just loved all that interaction and loved being around teams. Started playing sports in fifth grade you know, on a basketball team, I can remember one of the disappointing days of my life was the fifth graders got to try out for the sixth-grade team that was a travel team that went to play other schools and my best friend in the fifth grade made the team and I did not. And you know, I was very happy for him, very sad for me, but somewhere around the sixth grade. I started being able to play a lot better at pretty much every sport and pretty much play every sport.
My father worked for the railroad and he worked a seven to three shift, so he really came to every sporting event from seventh grade on. In fact, when I was in high school, he and another group of dads, shift workers, came to practices, so my dad never missed two games in a row. I don't know if he ever missed two practices for baseball, basketball and football.
By time I got into high school, I went to a high school that was much more adept at athletics. I was pretty academic, I was a very good student in an average high school and I was a good athlete in a very good athletic school, so a lot of the upperclassmen we're getting attention from schools, you know big schools, who were recruiting them and because I played as a freshman I got a lot of attention, along the way.
So, in fact, when I was a senior in high school, I was all-state and was a high school all-American in football. I signed to play at Ohio State. Woody Hayes was the famous coach there. And when they were recruiting you they knew, you could go to other schools in those days, you would sign a letter of intent in the conference, so I signed it, big 10 letter, but I continue to visit other schools and I did some things that were a first.
My father worked for railroads and I’ve never flown. He said son, we take the train for two reasons. They have not perfected flying. And the train is free. In fact, I went to Dartmouth, you know, the fifteen-hour train ride and stopping in New York along the way. Actually, Boston then a bus to Hanover from Boston.
But I got to fly, for the first time, and my first plane flight was actually from Ohio to State College, Pennsylvania, to go to Penn State. The famous coach there was Joe Paterno and I think coach Paterno might have had something to do with my going to Dartmouth. I went to his house and he asked what other schools you are looking at? I said well Ohio State, Kansas, Michigan, Dartmouth. He says, stop right there. ‘I’m an Italian kid from Brooklyn and went to Brown. And we have the best combination of sports, football for you and premed of any of schools that you have mentioned, except for Dartmouth. If you don't come here, I think you should go to Dartmouth.’
I never forgot that and there weren't any other coaches who spoke of any other schools in any kind of positive light, you know, it’s here or nowhere, this is the only place. But he wasn't like that and that’s why when he had his problems I was so disappointed, because one of the reasons why he was a successful coach was that he really did look at his athletes as individuals, and he didn't look at them, just as you know, sports, jocks on this campus that win, but he looked at them student athletes who had a future ahead of them.
That's why I think the Ivy League gets it right when it comes to student athletes, because you know, we want to win. I want to see Dartmouth win, but I also want to see those Dartmouth players go out into the world become leaders in whatever field they choose. I think the Ivy League does that better than anybody else.
I think we play. You know, people would kid me or say, ‘you're going to the Ivy League to play football?’ when everybody thought the big 10 was the place to be. I knew that my future wasn't in professional sports, but I wanted to play, and I wanted to have fun.
I got a picture not far from here of me and Gale Sayers. Gale Sayers was premier athlete. Running back for the Chicago Bears at that point in time. We went to University of Kansas to visit, and Kansas might have something to do with me going to Dartmouth, too. I go there and he's recruiting, and you know, if the best running back in the NFL says you should go to Kansas, ok. So, I plan to sign the big-eight letter of intent because of him. But the coach there, let me take you to see some of the players and he took me to this off-campus house. And you know, I’m a peanut butter-and-jelly kid from Ohio. I don't drink. I don't smoke. He takes me to this house and it's like three o'clock on Friday afternoon and a party going on. I mean there's a lot of people and there were a lot of girls in there. And guys were drinking beer, even when the coach came, they kept drinking beer. What’s going on here? And when a coach left, they fired up these funny cigarettes that smelled kind of strange. I didn’t know exactly what it was. I had an idea what it was. So, I, I don't know if this is the right place for me.
The next weekend I went to Dartmouth. And the coach was a guy named John Curtis. There were freshmen teams then, couldn't play on the varsity until sophomore year and he was the head freshman coach and he's the guy that recruited me. I don't exactly know how I got on Dartmouth's radar.
I mean, he showed up at my high school one day, said you know, I’d like to talk with you, maybe come by later and meet your parents, then he came by my house later. And so, the next time I saw him was on campus and we're romping around campus and he says, let me take you to meet some of the athletes and I said, oh no, not again! I thought he's going to take us to his off-campus house.
He took me to Baker library. We started walking around the library on Friday afternoon, they started to introduce me to guys on the team. And you know, there was a guy, a quarterback there, was a guy named Hank Paulson, whose name you heard, was offensive tackle at that point in time. I think later became Chairman of Goldman Sachs and Secretary of the Treasury [CEO, Goldman Sachs, Secretary of Treasury 2006-2009.]
So, now I’m meeting football players in the library on a Friday, as opposed to this serious unrestrained party on Friday night. And that was much more my style and personality. You know, I really like this place. I think this is going up on my list. I can hear Joe Paterno in my head too.
I was also recruited by Marshall. My high school coach and my high school principal both went to Marshall, so I got to go to Marshall. I go to visit, and the President of the alumni association was a doctor, and after the game — I think it was like Kent State,
Marshall is in the mid-American conference —we go to his house. At dinner and sitting there, the phone rings, he says it’s for you.
I take the phone call and it's a guy name Hal Greer. Hal Greer was a Marshall alum at that point in time, was a star with the Philadelphia 76ers. And he said, you know Tom, now I’m looking forward to watching you play at Marshall and when you come out to Cincinnati. The Cincinnati Royals was an NBA team then. When we come to play, the Royals, you know, we want you to come in and have dinner with the team and meet some players. I’m listening to this on the telephone and I’m getting excited, this Marshall guy sounds good. So, guy gets on the phone ‘hey Tom, how you doing this is Wilt Chamberlain,’ right, [inaudible] we will have fun, we might even catch couple your games when we go to Marshall. So, I hang up the phone and it's like, I just spoke to Hal Greer, I just spoke to Wilt Chamberlain. Now I’m confused, maybe I need to go to Marshall.
The phone rings again and Dr. Hayden, he says, it's for you. So I asked who was it this time? Moses. I take the call. 'This is Dr.—I can’t remember his name—I’m associate Dean at Georgetown Medical School. And Ray and I are best friends, we were roommates in medical school.’ And he's told me, you plan to be a doctor, and I want you to know that I understand how difficult it is to be premed and play football.
‘I want you to know that I will be watching your career at Marshall and when it comes time for you to apply to Medical School, I’m going to personally walk your application through the process.’
Now I’m not listening strategically what he's saying. He's telling me come to Marshall and he's going to get me into Medical School, I’m thinking about I just spoke to Wilt Chamberlain and what's on the table and what's for dessert So if I had been someone who really was a strategic thinker and understanding that it's difficult to get into medical school, I would have gone to Marshall. But I wasn't a strategic thinker, I was excited about talking to Al Greer and Wilt Chamberlin. I was excited about the desert. If I go to Marshall, I would have been on a team that there was a plane crash and everybody, including Dr Haley, he was a team physician, was killed. [Plane crash occurred November 14, 1970.]
That movie, We are Marshall [2006] I went to see it with my son who was eight years old. I’m sitting there, he's got a tear running down his cheeks. I said, ‘why are you crying?’ He said, ‘Daddy that could have been you’ and I said, ‘but it wasn't.’ I said, ‘sometimes in life, you get blessings. And you don't know about him at the time, but you might learn about them four or five years later.’
So, I’ve had a lot of blessings in my life. I guess one was that I wasn't that much of a strategic thinker when I was a senior in high school.
When I got to Dartmouth, as I said, my high school was an average high school, wasn't that strong. I think my class [at Dartmouth], I’m not sure exact numbers, but I think you know, half of my class had gone to private school and at least half of those went to boarding school so it's a very strong class. Dartmouth was all-male.
And for the first time in my life, I made a C. I made a C! Came home at Christmas time, my first quarter system, my first quarter grades, and a C there. My mother was not taking any prisoners. She was all over me. ‘You going to Dartmouth, you're making C's you’re playing football, chasing girls instead of going to the library.’
‘Mom, I’m playing football, I’m not chasing girls. It’s an all-male school and I’m trying.’
My dad was a little more reserved about it. He says, ‘well, are you trying?’ I said, ‘yeah dad, I’m really trying.’ He said, ‘well stick with it, you know you're going to church?’ There was a deacon in the Church. I said, ‘well every now and then.’ He said ‘we should go more often, you know, go to church and then go to library.’ And that was my Sunday. I go to quick breakfast at Thayer Hall, I go to the white church and I go to the library. And over a relatively short period of time, I think freshman year was a very difficult year because I was playing catch up. But one thing that came clear to me is they weren’t any smarter than me, they were better prepared. And with focus and hard work, I caught up.
I will tell you that I went to Mount Holyoke, in all of the years, one time. And you know, at an all-male school, road tripping to the girls’ school was a big deal, and that was every weekend, you know that were [inaudible] signups so you can get a ride Holyoke, Smith, or Boston.
Between playing football in the fall and pre-med courses I've been on no road trips. I can pretty much count road trips I made in four years on one hand. I was there to get into Medical School and the rest of that stuff really didn't matter that much to me. Now I’ll play catch up later. But that was four years that were very focused for me. I knew what I wanted, and if I was going to get it, I couldn't be distracted. I didn't go over Thanksgiving because you know coming on Thanksgiving, I was going to be over until Christmas so why bother? I stayed in the dorm and I had a kind of modified fast. I pretty had much juice from like Wednesday and maybe you know, juice and a salad for Thanksgiving and I slept and studied. You know that weekend, I actually enjoyed that.
I was a biology major. I thought majoring in a science as premed student was a good idea. And I really enjoyed it. Professor Ballard, [William Whitney Ballard] one of the venerable, well-published prominent biology professors in America at that time was someone who used to stay very late in Gilman, and I used to study there instead of my dorm, again I focus better on reading being out of my dorm and I’d be there late at night.
And so was he and he was kind of the quintessential professor out of central casting, you know, white hair, white beard, a little disheveled, but clearly a twinkle in his eye. You know, something about that, whatever it is. It was kind of inspirational being around smart people like that. And it would be night and he will be walking around in socks, and ‘you're still here? so are you.’ And we have these casual conversations.
One thing I tell junior colleagues now whenever people ask for my advice, one of those things is to form alliances, if not even forming mentorship. Dr. Ballard wasn't a mentor, but we got to know one another. Well, he didn't know anything about football. I don’t think he knew anything about Black people. And we discussed football, politics, race. And when it was time to go to Medical School, I asked him for a letter of recommendation and he said it had been his pleasure.
In fact, I was on one of my interviews for medical school. Washington University in St Louis. The person interviewing on says, you know, there’s a letter here from a Dr. Ballard. And he says it's one of the nicest letters of recommendation I’ve ever read. I didn't know that Dr. Ballard was going to do that, but I think the reason why he did that is because I wasn't just another face. So, I think talking to your students and when I’m talking to interns who are starting their careers, I ask them to identify someone who may become a mentor, but if they don't become a mentor at least become your friend or someone you’re well-acquainted with. So if there are things that they do well, you emulate that and at some point in time they might be able to do you a favor, a letter recommendation or even being there to give you advice and I was lucky enough to have that. Never saw the letter but was glad to hear about it when it was time.
Well, I haven't talked about football. I guess I should. Football always been a big part of my life. I mean, it's the best. They're trying to make it touch. It ain’t touch. It’s a violent sport.
COONEY: And Mr. Price, not to cut you off but that was going to be one of my first questions about transition into college being a biology major: How you managed with the course load, while being a football player?
PRICE: I will tell you that some of my best GPAs were in the fall. I think the more time you have, the more time you waste, and when I didn't have much time, I was very focused, very efficient and there is something about having your system on peak performance. There is a mind body connection. I’m still very physically active. It's raining and cold today. I rode my bike for twelve miles. I’ve always been very physically active and focused [inaudible]. And during fall when you’re up early out early you're working your mind body, and I think your mental level of alertness and performance is better.
I mean, even now, I have a son. My kids didn't want to go to Dartmouth [inaudible] both my kids went to Penn and they both understand the value of mind body. [Inaudible] you know they got a big exam coming up they'll go to the gym.
So, my workload, you know, almost paradoxical. I don't say it was easier, but it seems that I was more efficient in the fall. And I think sometime the more time you have the more time you waste, and so I think being focused, keeping your mind sharp. I didn't take road trips. I didn't do a lot of things a lot of the guys did. I think I missed a lot of fun. I think it was challenging but, you know, clearly doable.
COONEY: Okay, I’m moving on to the next question. Did you know about the William Shockley [1969] visit to campus? If so, how did this make you feel as a Black student and what was the reaction of the other students?
PRICE: Well, it was an interesting time to be a Black student at Dartmouth. There was that not that many Black students. When I came as a freshman there were less than three Black students. In fact I can recall freshman week I hadn't really seen anybody else Black and I see this Black student walk across campus and he was, I think, as eager to meet me as I was him. A lot of freshmen, you know, we talked about it, we both will be premed. That's all we do. ‘What are you going to do?’ ‘So, I’m a fencer.’ ‘You’re a fencer?’ And I said to myself that we got some different kind of brothers coming here. I’ve never heard anybody that ever fenced.
During the time while I was there, though, we started to recruit more [Black] students. My class, I think, had 13. The class behind me had 30. Class behind them had 80 because [inaudible] Dartmouth trying to recruit ten percent. So, 13, 30, 80 and 80. When I was a freshman, I think the total number was around 35 Black students on campus.
This guy named William Shockley was coming to give a lecture. Shockley was a Nobel Prize winner. Now if you’re a Nobel Prize winner, you get a lot of credit and sometimes you get credit for stuff that you don’t deserve. They think you know a lot about everything. You know a lot about one thing.
And he was really a racist and had promoted the genetic inferiority of Black people. So he came to give this presentation. He was introduced and Black students over there, and the majority must have been 20 of us, stood up and started to applaud and we didn't stop, and he wasn't able to speak.
To Dartmouth’s credit, nobody really had a serious problem with that. They understood. There were those who said that we were suppressing speech and should be, you know, open exchange of ideas, even exchange ideas we don't agree with. But somehow or other, listening to somebody tell us that we were genetically inferior just wasn't gonna fly. This wasn't gonna fly. And this was also a time when Black America was deciding, were we going to be Martin Luther King or were we going to be Malcolm X?
I think at that point in time the Dartmouth Black students were more Malcolm X than they were Martin Luther King. And in fact, you know, while I was there, we started the African American Society. Guy by the name of Woody Lee. His name was Forrester Lee, nickname Woody, was the first president. Forrester was an outstanding student. Woody was a chemistry major. As pre-med, organic chemistry was the weed-out class and Woody was a chemistry major and a preceptor in the chemistry lab. So I went to organic chemistry, and I see this Black guy being one of the preceptors. We had slain the dragon. It was inspirational.
So, there were a lot of upper classmen who were inspirational by their presence. There was a Black Rhodes scholar in every class ahead of me, and my class, and the class behind me. You mentioned Willie Bogan is going to be interviewed as a part of this project. Willie was a Rhodes scholar. So, there were some intellectual — very bright — Black students. And quote unquote affirmative action really hadn't started then.
It didn't really start until the second class after me. They started recruiting people. You know, white people were saying that maybe the standards are being changed to get more Black students in and I don't think so. I think there was being, again, an appreciation that some of the students didn't have as much preparation. So, the scores may not have been as high, but they were just as intelligent, just as bright. Put them in that setting and they will excel and that's really what happened. It was a great time to be at Dartmouth and see all these smart Black people around you, who are very capable and were going to excel at what they did.
I helped recruit some of the football players when I was a freshman Blackman [Bob Blackman, Dartmouth football coach, 1955-1970] called me and said, ‘you know, I’ve got this blue chipper coming up from Baltimore. And he was just at Yale and stayed with Calvin Hill.’ Now you probably know about Grant Hill, famous basketball player. His daddy, Calvin Hill, was a great football player, rookie of the year, played with the Dallas Cowboys, was outstanding player from Baltimore. So Stu was from Baltimore, and he stayed with Calvin Hill.
I said to Stu, ‘I got nothing bad to say about Yale, I’ve got nothing bad to say about Calvin Hill, but if you go to Yale, we’re gonna kick your butt every year.’ Came to Dartmouth, we became roommates, so he was a class behind me. He was captain of the team. Went to Harvard law school, finished that, became a federal prosecuting attorney. Was the district attorney in Baltimore, I guess they call it state's attorney in Baltimore, and Kurt Schmoke [first African American elected mayor in Baltimore, 1987-1999] was the Black mayor and he ran for lieutenant governor. Those are the kind of people who were at Dartmouth then. It was very stimulating.
COONEY: Mr. Price, can I ask you this: As a Black male in the late 60s early 70s being at Dartmouth, how difficult was it being at a higher-level school, predominantly white, located in the middle of nowhere or the middle of woods?
Did you have resources to help you get through your time here like support resources or mental health resources or even African American resources like we have today, such as the DBSAA Dartmouth Black Student Athlete Alliance?
PRICE Well, no, we did not have any formal support organizations; we were supportive of one another. I think when you're in a situation where it's kind of like football double session. You know you’re tired, beat down but have some of the goals you know one of the four is a winner.
And I think the Black students who were at Dartmouth with me understood that, yes, we know we are going to New Hampshire. We know it's going to be cold, we know there aren’t lot of Black people, but you know we're coming to get an education, because we've been told that the Ivy League education, Dartmouth education, is one that will help us get a substantial head start in life.
And I do think the Ivy League education is added value, I think there are no bad colleges. None. But I do think Ivy League schools have the resources. Ivy League schools have the networks that can be helpful when you finish. Even now, if I go someplace and people talk about where they went to school, I say Dartmouth. I see people's opinion immediately assume I’m a smart guy. Having an Ivy League diploma will help get you in the door. It won't keep you there, but I think it does help to open.
We were there because we wanted to get the best education we could, because we understood the value of education. And we knew you get a very good education at Dartmouth.
Our support, our support net was … our Black classmates. We did have a sort of corner table in the dining hall, where nobody sat because it’s where the Black guys sat. And, you know, most of my good friends were Black guys.
But I had a number of friends who were not Black who were in dorms and, of course, some of my teammates. But this was the late 60s and early 70s and we really had parallel social existences.
And I can't recall being in one teammate, one white teammate’s dorm room. Not one. That's okay. I played on one, not one of, I think the best team Dartmouth every had. That fall of 1970 team was undefeated. We shut out six opponents, were number one in the nation in total defense, number 12 in one poll and number 13 in another [inaudible] at division one.
There were some players on that team and interestingly I’ve gotten a lot closer to those guys after graduation, then I did when we were teammates. We played together, we were friends, but we didn't have a lot of social interaction off the field.
My social interactions with my teammates after graduation has been [inaudible] but very rewarding and I look forward to talking to them. I didn't make it to recent homecoming where you celebrated the 50th anniversary.
But we were pretty much our own support And we understood that we were going to the northern woods of New Hampshire where it was cold, so nobody acts surprised when we got there. There were no Black professors. There was Errol Hill who came, while we were there, maybe first Black professor.
But it was a time where just like [inaudible] let's say we have a situation where you have a common struggle, common goal, you forge bonds. And some of those people that I was in college with are now some of my best friends decades later because of our trials and tribulations.
COONEY: Mr. Price, being on that 1970 Dartmouth football team, did that year of football build character in you as a young man? Are there characteristics that you've learned then that you use today? I have to ask, what do you think you guys’ chances were of beating Penn State?
Let me answer that first: We would have kicked their butt. Because we had players at every position and depth at every position. Blackman had recruited nationally. And there were guys, who had gone to Texas or UCLA.
It turns out that my senior year wasn't the year I planned on. I ended up two weeks before camp started, I tore cartilage in my knee, so I played my senior year hurt. I got a game ball, you know, but I wasn't all anything because I’m hopping around. You got close to me, I would tackle you, but I didn't have the mobility that was one of my strengths. So I didn't have a great year. I had a whole lot of fun and had some great games and it was a very memorable experience. There was nothing like walking into somebody's stadium and knowing there was nothing they could do to win.
We were just gonna win. And then we played in the Yale Bowl with 70,000 people. The score was ten to nothing because the offense kept folding inside. They couldn't move the ball inside the 30. It should have been four for touchdowns. It should have been like 35 to nothing but it wasn't.
There's nothing like going into Harvard stadium and making that place quiet. I can't tell you how much fun that is, and I remember it like it was a couple of years ago, because you remember the good, remember the real fun things in life.
And my senior year playing Dartmouth football was one of the most memorable years of my life and some of those guys I played with you know, Black and white are some of my best friends even now. Football and sports in general, are lessons in living.
Preparation. If you want to do something well you got to prepare and practice. The way you practice is the way you play. I enjoyed practice because it was still playing. You got to learn how to enjoy the process. You got to enjoy the preparation. It's not always going to be fun. That's why work is called work and not play because it's hard. It requires some effort. But you got to learn how to enjoy the effort, so football teaches you about preparation.
Football and sports teach you about playing when you are injured. You know there aren't going to be optimal circumstances every time in your life. Sometimes you’re going to physically not feel like going to work, you got to go to work.
And then there are times when you know you get bad colds. But you don't give up you keep playing the game. There'll be times at work somebody's going to treat you unfairly. Are you going to take your ball and go home, or are you going to quit your job, or are you going to figure out what to do? What you're not going to do is make it easy for them. Have an opponent that you want to beat? You not going lay down, you gonna play hard!
And you do want to know your opposition. I mean if you are, if you have a job, what are your expectations? What other expectations are here? Are you going to be able to deliver upon that?
Teamwork, you know, being able to work with people that you know, and people that you don't know.
Or working with people you don't even like. Now, there was nobody on that football I didn't like.
I will tell you something now: cardiologists aren’t always likable [inaudible] some are egotistical maniacs. I can name two cardiologists I don't like, but I can work with them. So, I think sports and football — because football is all physical and there are times when you do have physical complaints and pain that you really do have to play. It does translate into other areas of your life, which I think have been very beneficial to me.
COONEY: I’d like to transition into life after the Dartmouth. Are there are there, a lot of relationships that you created at Dartmouth that are still around today? And do you still stay in contact with many of your close friends from college?
PRICE: Well after Dartmouth, went to Medical School. I got into Dartmouth Medical School, but I was ready to get out of Hanover. From Ohio, the University of Cincinnati who are [inaudible] football right now. The University of Cincinnati gave me the most money so that's why I went.
And it was kind of like Dartmouth in that there weren’t a lot of Black people. The class was 125, I had five Black students in my class. And during that four-year tenure moving from the classrooms to hospital, between the second and third year there was this preceptorship to teach you about physical diagnosis [inaudible].
PRICE: And it was a preceptor — we had I guess 12 students and one of the other Black students who just happened to be in that group — and I can remember the preceptor. He says, ‘some people got into Medical School and don't deserve to be here. I'm going to find out who they are and I’m going to do my best to see they'll get out.’
So afterwards, my friend and says, ‘you think he was talking to us?’ He might have been talking to you, but he wasn't talking to me. I will tell you that following me, with all due modesty, there was a guy from Dartmouth in every class for a number of years. I think they thought Dartmouth guys were going to come there and work hard. I just happen to be the first. And they did. So, I think I think my Dartmouth preparation in terms of academics, led me in very good stead. I think the kind of focus and attitude that Dartmouth gave me I think outlook affects outcome.
The way on the football team, I thought there was nothing that you could do to beat us. Coming from Dartmouth academically I didn't think it was there wasn't any place where I couldn't be. So, I left Dartmouth with a great deal of confidence that did help me in medical school and afterwards.
Many of the bonds that I forged at Dartmouth with classmates I continue. As you mentioned, Willie Bogan — Willie Bogan and I talk often, not as often as I would like. Stu Sims, the guy I talked about before you know, was a football captain [inaudible] we often talk. Some of the guys in class behind me — Ben Wilson was Russell Wilson's uncle, we’re in contact often. So a lot of the guys — I said guys because there were no women All the guys that I was with at Dartmouth you know I continue to be great friends with. Dan Radakovich. Dan Radakovich was this hard-nose offensive tackle, who would hang with the brothers. In fact, he is a Defense attorney in Chicago. And he does criminal defense and we've talked about how the criminal justice system is biased against Black people. He’s seen that his whole career and now he is very adamant and aggressive about defending Black people, even when they're guilty, they need a fair outcome. There are guys like that, who were at Dartmouth then, Black and white, that I am proud to call my friends.
COONEY: Nice. A final question to wrap up the interview. Knowing what now you know Mr. Price, what would you have done differently in college?
PRICE: Oh, I’ve never thought about that. Maybe take more road trips.
COONEY: That's fine.
PRICE: I might have taken more road trips; I think I overestimated [inaudible].I might have taken a trip abroad; I did not do that. That guy who was the fencer, he took a year in France and now he speaks fluent French he's in touch with the family, even now staying with them. So I think I would have taken advantage of foreign study. And I think I would have taken a few more —
COONEY: You know, we do that now actually, we students take a lot of road trips whether it’s to Boston, Vermont, or somewhere else in Massachusetts. Yeah, we take a lot of road trips, because you feel like it's better for the mental [health] because being in Hanover for so long doing the heavy course load, the weather starting to get cold. You feel like you're bored and stuff. You know, you feel like the road trips are very necessary.
PRICE: Listen, I understand it. I guess my friend, Stu and I rented a car one time went to Boston. Tried to find the shortest route, so we wouldn't add an extra mile and have to pay for those extra miles. Shortest line between two points is a straight line. We're trying to find the straight line to Boston to save every nickel.
So, I understand the essential road tripping thing. I think if you do go to Dartmouth you know, I think road trip, may be even more essential now than it was then.
COONEY: Can I ask you one more thing about college yeah, [inaudible] was at ’53 commons, or you guys have something different?
PRICE: Actually, dropped out a little bit, can you repeat that?
COONEY: I was going to say, where did the student population mostly eat back then? Was it at the place called ‘53 Commons [Class of 1953 Commons] that the students know today as FOCO?
PRICE: Oh no [inaudible] I think it’s changed now. There was Thayer Dining Hall. In fact, as part of my scholarship I worked in the dining hall for two years. I didn’t do it during football season, but in the winter and spring I worked in the dining hall. And so most of the students ate at a dining hall on campus. The upperclassman, many of whom [inaudible] would eat at some of the places on Main St., but Thayer Dining Hall was where most of the people ate.
COONEY: Okay yeah 53 Commons is like to the southwest part of the green. And this type behind the…Ah, I’m trying to see what buildings it's behind.
PRICE: Behind an administration building?
COONEY: Oh yeah it is an administration building.
PRICE: That was Thayer Hall.
COONEY: Oh, OK, OK.
PRICE: That was the dining facility there. I have pretty much ate there all three years. My senior year, I did not have a dining hall contract. And I ate three meals every day, so I ate on Main Street, not necessarily a balanced diet, but it was tasty.
COONEY: Questions is keep coming up. One more question going back to college. So, being that everything on the outside world was going on at the time, such as like the civil rights movement, things with a lot of Black activists, did this affect many Black people on campus, like many Black students on Dartmouth campus back then?
PRICE: You know, Martin Luther King was assassinated, Kent State happened [Ohio National Guard killing of Kent State University college students amid anti-war protests on May 4, 1970], the Vietnam War. There's just so much happening at so many places. And there was no way that you couldn't be in that, but we had I think at that point time a student body that was very politically active.
Kemeny [John Kemeny, President of Dartmouth, 1970-1981] became President and he was very socially engaged. And then we started the African American Society. We sent ten demands, he sent back fifteen responses.
Kent State happened, cancelled classes. I think there was this social responsibility that Dartmouth felt to educate the students outside of the classroom as well.
And so, it was one of those things where Black students and white, students, it was almost impossible not to be somehow socially engaged with all the issues that were happening off campus. I can remember that there was this this caricature person who came to Dartmouth. And at that point in time, the general who was sort of running the war in Vietnam was General Westmoreland.
And this guy came with these eagles and this uniform and he was General Waste More Land and he led these demonstrations, with the Students for a Democratic Society and a sort of antiwar rally.
So there was antiwar. There was anti-discrimination. There was all this political activism and energy that was around where it was impossible not to get at least tangentially involved, you know as a pre-med student who was in the library, the gym, or the dining hall or asleep I wasn't as politically active as some of my classmates but I certainly was involved and very sympathetic and supportive of whatever my more active classmates were doing.
COONEY: Oh, nice. And that concludes our interview with Mr. Price. I sincerely thank you for your time.
PRICE: It's been my pleasure. It's been great talking with you. You know Dartmouth, of course, is a place near and dear to my heart. Dartmouth students are people near and dear to my heart and you really do belong to a very special club. I mean, as you travel around the world, and you meet Dartmouth alumni, there’s a connection there among all Black Dartmouth alums. And even many white Dartmouth alums. You feel a kinship because of your time in Hanover. So there's no place it's a perfect existence. Now there are things about Hanover that I'm sure you would change and there are times you think you might want to be someplace else. I think the time you spend in Hanover, New Hampshire is well spent, so thank you for inviting me to talk to you and I want to wish you all well and go big green!